STEPHEN C O'CONNELL CENTER. 1 RON JEREMY. SUSAN G COLE. 8:00 P.M. >>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO THE GREAT PORNOGRAPHY DEBATE. >>> MY NAME IS DAVID BUCHALTER AND I'M CHAIRMAN OF ACCENT SPEAKER'S BUREAU. ALL RIGHT. TONIGHT IS A VERY IMPORTANT TONIGHT. WE'RE READY TO BEGIN A DISCUSSION ON PORNOGRAPHY IN OUR SOCIETY. IT'S MORE THAN AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY, WHOA, I SAW A REAL LIFE PORN STAR. TONIGHT, IS AN EVENING TO HEAR AND LEARN ABOUT THE VIEW POINTS ON ONE CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC. TAKE A LOOK AROUND AND LOCATE THE NEAREST MICROPHONE, KEEPING IN MIND THE CLOSEST ONE MAY BE BEHIND YOU LOCATED AT THE CORNERS AND TOP AS WELL. THERE'LL BE A LARGE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT THE FLOOR IS OPEN TO THE AUDIENCE FOR QUESTIONS. FROM NOW UNTIL THE END OF OPENING STATEMENTS, THINK OF DEBATABLE OPEN ENDED QUESTIONS OUR PRESENTERS WILL BE ABLE TO ARGUE. THIS OPEN FORUM STYLED DEBATE DEPENDS LARGELY ON YOUR INPUT. THE FLOOR IS OPEN TO QUESTIONS. PLEASE STEP UP AND ASK THEM THERE ARE VERY FEW RESTRICTIONS ON TONIGHT'S DEBATE OUTLINED BY THE DEBATE MODERATOR. WE ASK YOU PHRASE YOUR QUESTION POLITELY AND RESPECT THE OPINION OF THE OPPONENT. SEVERAL THANK YOUS ARE IN ORDER BEFORE I INTRODUCE TONIGHT'S SPEAKER. A HUGE THANK YOU TO THE ACCENT STAFF. EVERYONE HANDLED THINGS QUITE WELL. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OUR SUCCESS IS DUE IN LARGE PART TO YOUR WORK. AN ADDITIONAL THANK YOU TO ACCENT'S ADMINISTRATOR ADVISOR FOR TAKING THE TIME OUT OF HER SCHEDULE TO HELP US OUT. WE APPRECIATE HER GUIDANCE AND SUPPORT. >>> TONIGHT'S MODERATOR IS PROFESSOR ALEX PIQUERO, AN INTERN PROFESSOR IN THE COLLEGE OF CRIMINOLOGY AND LIBERAL ARTS AND SCIENCES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA HE IS A MEMBER OF THE NATIONAL CONSORTIUM ON VIOLENCE RESEARCH AND MEMBER OF THE MCARTHUR RESEARCH ON ADOLESCENT DEVELOPMENT AND JUVENILE JUSTICE. HE RECEIVED NUMEROUS TEACHING AWARDS THROUGHOUT HIS CAREER. 2003 YOUNG SCHOLAR AWARD AND 2003 TEACHER OF THE YEAR AWARD. HIS RESEARCHING INCLUDES CRIMINOLOGY THEORY, CRIMINAL CAREERS AND OFFENDER DECISION MAKING IN VARIOUS CONTEXT INCLUDING SEXUAL ASSAULT AND DRUNK DRIVING AND THEFT. HE WAS RANKED NUMBER TWO CRIMINALIST IN THE WORLD IN TERMS OF SCHOLARLY PUBLICATIONS AND PUBLISHED 104 ARTICLES, FOUR BOOKS AND SECURED OVER 1 MILLION IN RESEARCH SUPPORT. GIVE A HAND TO THE MAN BIG ENOUGH TO TAKE ON TWO SPEAKERS AT ONCE. TONIGHT, WE HAVE WITH US TWO OF THE MOST DISTINGUISHED PERSONALITIES IN THEIR RESPECTIVE FIELDS. SUSAN G COLE IS A PLAYWRIGHT. [ APPLAUSE ] >> SHE'S A SENIOR ENTERTAINMENT AND BOOKS EDITOR AT NOW MAGAZINE, CANADA'S PREMIER NEWS ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY. SHE'S BEEN ACTIVE IN THE ANTI-PORNOGRAPHY INDUSTRY MOVEMENT. SINCE DEMONSTRATIONS OF THE MOVIE SNUFF IN THE '70S. THE CROSSED COLLEGE CAMPUSES IN THE '80S DOING DEBATES WITH SCREW MAGAZINE PUBLISHER AL GOLDSTEIN. SHE HAS WRITTEN COUNTLESS ESSAYS AND ARTICLES ON VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN. HER FIRST BOOK "PORNOGRAPHY AND THE SEX CRISIS" IS REQUIRED READING IN CAMPUSES ACROSS THE COUNTRY. I CAN'T DEFEND PORN FROM THE ADULT 2 VIDEO ASSOCIATION WE GOVERN. IF SOMEBODY MAKES A FILM FROM A CAMPUS IN OKLAHOMA, THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT ON THE INTERNET, TRADE IT TO THEIR FRIENDS. IF THEY WANT TO SELL IT TO WIDE SCALE DISTRIBUTION THEY HAVE TO COME TO THE BIG DOGS, OUR INDUSTRY. AT THAT POINT WE GOVERN, CHECK THE ID'S, ET CETERA, MAKE SURE THERE'S NO ABUSE BECAUSE IT WON'T BE DISTRIBUTED. ESPECIALLY NOW WITH THE FIRST JURIES BEING SENT DOWN SOUTH TO PROSECUTE US, A LOT OF EUROPEANS CONSIDER OUR FILMS WHITE BREAD BECAUSE WE CAN'T GO TOO MUCH ON THE EDGE BECAUSE WE GET PROSECUTED. THIS IS MY . ABOUT HOW I CANNOT DEFEND EVERYTHING INVOLVED IN THE ADULT INDUSTRY. AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THIS IS MY RESPONSE TO WHAT SUSAN SAID. I'M NOT REALLY ON THE ATTACK. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH WHAT SHE DOES. IF PEOPLE WANT TO READ THE BIBLE, I DON'T CARE, I HAVE RELIGIOUS FRIENDS, I WAS FRIENDS WITH TAMMY FAYE. I WANT TO BE LEFT A LONE. IF YOU WANT TO WATCH PORN, WATCH PORN. WE LABEL THINGS YOU SEE SEX STUCK INTO R RATED FILMS AND VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN STUCK INTO R RATED MOVIES. THEY DON'T LABEL, IT HITS YOU WENT YOU DON'T EXPECT IT. WE TELL YOU FROM THE BEGINNING WE'RE RATED X. IF YOU WANT TO LAUGH, WATCH MONTE PYTHON. WANT TO CRY, WATCH WEATHERING HEIGHTS. WANT TO GET ENTICED WITH CHEERLEADERS AND NURSES ON RATES NIGHT SIN MAX, WATCH A PORN FILM. ALL THAT WIDE WORLD OF ENTERTAINMENT, NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS. SUSAN AND SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE THOSE ATTITUDES FIND A LOT OF FALSE IN IT I DON'T BUY. AS FAR AS ABUSE GOES, THEY SAY MOST STAR IMPORTANCE COME FROM ABUSED HOMES, NOT THE CASE OF HUNDREDS OF GIRLS I CAN LIST THAT DIDN'T. AND LOOK AT A FILM THEY CLAIM THEY HAVE ABUSES AT HOME, OPRAH WINFREY, ROSEANNE BARR, LA TOYA JACKSON, ALL THESE WOMEN CLAIM THEY WERE ABUSED AT HOME. IN MANY WAYS HOLLYWOOD IS FULL OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD PROBLEMS LIKE THIS, NOT JUST THE PORN INDUSTRY. LAST BUT NOT LEAST, WE ARE UNDER PROSECUTION RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT AND EXPECTING A LOT OF INDICTMENTS TO COME DOWN IN THE ADULT INDUSTRY. TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF EDUCATION, THEY FIND JURISDICTIONS DOWN SOUTH TO PRESIDENT THE PORN INDUSTRY THAT FIND IT OBSCENE AND OFFENSIVE. THEY CAN'T GET A JURY IN LA OR CALIFORNIA OR GAINESVILLE. THEY FIND IT IN OKLAHOMA AND MISSISSIPPI AND ALABAMA. WE'RE ALWAYS BEING ATTACKED AND JUST WANT TO BE LEFT ALONE. THANKS. [ APPLAUSE ] >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> NOW THE FUN BEGINS. I'M STARTING UP THERE. KEEP IT TO A QUESTION, OTHERWISE, I'M GOING TO YANK YOU. >> HI. I HAVE A QUESTION. ONE OF THE FREQUENT FEMINIST CRITIQUES I'VE HEARD OVER THE YEARS OF PORNOGRAPHY IS THAT IT'S INHERENTLY PATRIARCHAL, IT COMES FROM A MEAL PERSPECTIVE, CATERED TO A MEAL AUDIENCE, DOESN'T INCORPORATE FEMININE SEXUALITY OR WOMEN. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT, YOU ALREADY MENTIONED JENNA JAMISON AND A LOT OF FEMALE PORN STARS THAT HAVE FULL CREATIVE CONTROL, PRODUCE THEIR OWN OPPRESSION AS OPPOSED TO FEMALE 3 EMPOWERMENT? THEY'RE DECIDING WHAT TOO DO WITH THEIR OWN BODIES? >> I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THEIR EMPOWERMENT, I WAS ADDRESSING THE WOMEN USERS. I DON'T THINK IT'S A DEFINITION OF FEMALE EMPOWERMENT, AS FAR AS WHAT USERS ARE GETTING OUT OF IT. YOU KNOW, JUST GOING BACK TO MY PREVIOUS QUESTION, YOU KNOW, I FIND IT A LITTLE DISINGENUOUS RON IS TELLING US PORNOGRAPHY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DEGRADING WOMEN OR MAKING THE WOMEN APPEAR TO BE LESS THAN WHEN THEY'RE ENGAGING IN THAT KIND OF SEXUALITY IN THAT WAY. IT'S EXACTLY WHAT PORNOGRAPHY IS PORTRAYING ABOUT SEXUALITY THAT CAUSES THAT WEIRD HYPOCRISY THAT MEN LOOK AT AND GET OFF AND SAY, STUPID SLUT. SO, HE JUST TOLD YOU THAT THAT'S HOW THEY'RE THOUGHT AND TREATED. HE REFERRED TO THE MOST FAMOUS, MOST POWERFUL, MOST WEALTHY OF PORNOGRAPHY STARS THAT CAME OUT OF HIS MOUTH, THEY'RE STILL CALLED SLUTS. THAT'S NOT EMPOWERMENT. >> IT'S NOT THE FAULT OF US. NO ONE WILL SAY THAT ON CAMERA, SHE'LL KICK HIM IN THE NOSE. THEY SAY IT BEHIND THE BACK, DOESN'T ALWAYS HAPPEN, SOMETIMES HAPPEN. I BET ABOUT 90% OF THE GUYS SAW JENNA JAMISON, GIVE HER A BIG KISS AND GET HER AUTOGRAPH AND LOVE HER UNTIL SHE LEAVES THE ROOM. MIGHT BE 1 PERCENTAGE OF THE GUYS MIGHT SAY SHE'S A SLUT AND HAVE AN AT OUT TO. I'M SAYING SOCIETY HAS A DOUBLE STANDARD. I AGREE WITH WHAT SHE SAYS, WOMEN ARE CHOOSING THEIR OWN FATE. EVEN IF A WOMAN CHOOSES TO WORK IN A BROTHEL IN NEVADA THAT'S HER CHOICE AND KEEPS HER OWN MONEY. NOT LIKE IN THE STREET. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE DOUBLE STANDARD PEOPLE HAVE IN SOCIETY. IT'S NOT GOOD. IF WE COULD CHANGE IT, WE WOULD. >> WHEN YOU HAVE A DAUGHTER, IF YOU DO, WILL YOU-I'M ASKING THE PERSON THAT ASKS THE QUESTION, BECAUSE I APPRECIATED THE QUESTION, WILL YOU SAY, GO FORTH, HONEY, BE A PROSTATE? >> I WILL SAY TO HER, IF SHE'S GOOD AT IT AND SHE ENJOYS DOING IT, THERE'S NO REASON SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE THE POWER TO DO WHATEVER SHE WANTS WITH HER OWN MONEY. >> ALL RIGHT. [ APPLAUSE ] >> YOU WON'T THINK THAT SOCIAL FORCES ARE SETTING OUT THE CHOICES FOR HER? DO YOU THINK THAT CONSENT IS THAT TRIVIAL, THAT IF YOU CAN JUST DECIDE ON YOUR OWN THERE AREN'T SOCIAL FORCES AT WORK THAT MIGHT BE SHAPING HER CHOICES? >> I DO BELIEVE THERE ARE SOCIAL PROBLEMS WITH SOCIAL -- I DO BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE THINGS THAT AFFECT PEOPLE'S CHOICES AND PEOPLE'S OPPORTUNITIES. I ALSO BELIEVE IN THE INDIVIDUAL'S POTENTIAL TO RISE ABOVE THAT AND REALIZE WHAT'S STACKED AGAINST THEM AND TRY AND CHANGE THE WORLD AROUND THEM. >> I HONOR THOSE WOMEN WHO HAVE FOUND SOME POWER IN THAT. NOW, I'LL ASK YOU ANOTHER QUESTION. ARE YOU TAKING PROSTITUTION 101 AT THIS UNIVERSITY? >> NO. I'M ACTUALLY TAKING SOCIOLOGY. AND I AM A FEMINIST. >> I BET YOU ARE. I WOULD NOT SAY THAT YOU WERE NOT. I DO APPRECIATE THE QUESTION AND I HOPE YOU DON'T MIND IF WE CONTINUE TO ENGAGE IN THIS DIALOGUE BECAUSE THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME. WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS VERY IMPORTANT, SO MY NEXT QUESTION IS, IS IT A COINCIDENCE YOU HAVE NOT MADE THAT QUALITY, ALL THOSE THINGS ARE 4 SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEM. TAKING THE LAW AND SAYING GO AWAY AND BAN IT, I DON'T THINK IS THE WAY TO APPROACH IT. >> I WOULD LIKE TO ASK SUSAN FOR AN EXAMPLE OF AN ALTERNATIVE. IF WE'RE DOING IT WRONG, WHAT WOULD BE AN ALTERNATIVE. YOU SAY THERE ARE ALTERNATIVE THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE TO STIMULATE A PERSON, GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE BESIDES EROTIC BOOK, POETRY, WHAT ARE THE THINGS YOU FIND NOT OFFENSIVE? >> I DON'T WANT TO SUPPLY -- >> PLEASE. >> I KNOW, PLEASE, PLEASE FOR RON. I DON'T WANT TO -- I DON'T REALLY WANT TO SUPPLY THAT FOR PEOPLE. THICK THAT PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THAT PEOPLE ARE GETTING IDEAS ABOUT SEXUALITY FROM EXTERNAL FORCES. I DON'T GET WHAT THE . IS OF MY TELLING YOU WHAT I THINK YOU SHOULD DO. I DID HAVE THE IDEA OF HE ROT SIZING CONDOM USE. I THOUGHT THAT WAS PRETTY INTERESTING. >> SOME COMPANIES DO THAT. >> I THINK IT WOULD BE INTERESTING IF YOU EROTIZED HE QUALITY INSTEAD OF DOMINANCE AND SUBMISSION AND POWER AND THE WORLD WOULD LOOK A LOT DIFFERENT IF AS MUCH MONEY AND ENERGY IS SPENT ON EROTIZING DOMINANCE AND POWER AND DISMISSING WOMEN WAS SPENT ON EROTIZING MONEY WOULD BE A BETTER AND HEALTHIER PLACE. THE THING IS -- THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ] >> THERE ARE TWO COMPANIES THAT DO EXACTLY THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, TRY TO EROTICIZE THE USE OF CONDOMS AND TRY TO SHOW HE QUALITY BETWEEN THE PARTNERS AND SOMETIMES ACCUSED OF VERY WHITE BREAD SEX BECAUSE THE SEX IS SOFT AND HAVE VERY ATTRACTIVE GUYS AND GIRLS IN THEIR MOVIES. IT SEEMS TO ME THERE IS A CERTAIN BRANCH OF PORNOGRAPHY YOU'RE OKAY WITH. >> THE ISSUES OF EXPLOITATION OF THE PEOPLE IN IT STILL APPLY. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING, IT SHOULD COME FROM WITHIN. WE ALL HAVE THE POTENTIAL. WE DON'T NEED TO BE LOOKING ELSEWHERE TO BE FORCE FED, DO IT THIS WAY OR THIS WAY, I DON'T WANT TO BE A PART OF THAT PROCESS. I'M ASKING PEOPLE TO LOOK INSIDE YOU, INSIDE YOUR BODY. THE REAL HEAT, THE REAL YOU, THE REAL AUTHENTIC KIND OF AREA. IT SOUNDS A LITTLE HARRY FAIRY BECAUSE EVERYBODY SAYS, I WANT IT THIS WAY. I REFUSE TO BE THAT. >> DOWN OVER HERE. >> DO YOU THINK ADULT MOVIES SHOWING FORCED PENETRATION BY WOMEN AND STRAP-ON DEVICES IS AN ATTEMPT TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD? >> SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT QUESTION BUT COULD YOU GO A LITTLE SLOWER? I GOT THE STRAP-ON. >> IT'S GOOD QUESTION. ASK IT AGAIN. >> DO YOU FEEL ADULT MOVIES PORTRAYS FORCED MALE PENETRATION AND FELLATIO BY WOMEN IN STRAP ON DEVICE IS AN ATTEMPT BY WOMEN TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD? >> THAT'S PROBABLY FOR SUSAN, I GUESS? >> RIGHT. THE SHORT ANSWER IS NO. IT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION. I JUST WANT TO HEAR THE FIRST PART OF IT AGAIN. >> I'LL TAKE THIS. THERE ARE A LOT OF FOLKS OUT THERE. >> NO, NO. THIS PERSON HAS BROUGHT UP. I'M REALLY GLAD TO HEAR THE QUESTION. FORCED FELLATIO, WHAT'S THAT. >> I'LL TELL HER. YOU TELL HER. >> OKAY.